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Radiokansel: Anton Knoetze en Nelus Niemandt oor Kairos Netwerk
Op Vrydag 25 Februarie 2022 het Wynand Rossouw van Radiokansel tydens die program “Brandpunt”, ‘n onderhoud gevoer met:
- Anton Knoetze: Voorsitter van die Kairos Netwerk.
- Nelus Niemandt: Vorige moderator van die NG Kerk. Huidige rektor van Hugenote Kollege op Wellington.
Agtergrond
Die volgende skets die agtergrond:
Op 9 Februarie 2022 reik Kairos Netwerk ’n persverklaring uit waarin hulle sê dat hulle hul nie ywer vir ‘n skeuring in die NGK nie maar vir ’n omvattende en radikale reformasie. Hulle beplan ook om ’n nie-formele “Familie van Reformerende NG Kerke” teen Julie 2022 te skep.
Op Donderdag, 10 Februarie berig Netwerk24 hieroor. Daarin sê Nelus Niemandt dat die KN ’n wanvoorstelling voorhou van dit wat die NG Kerk werklik is.
Op Sondag, 13 Februarie 2022 berig Rapport oor die Goudland sinode wat gaan besluit oor artikel 37:
- Sinode besluit gou: Bly of gly oor gays (13 Feb 2022)
Op 15 Februarie 2022 berig Kerkbode ook oor hierdie aangeleentheid. Hierin sê Nelus Niemandt: “My vermoede is dat hierdie eerder net die grondslag lê vir kerkskeuring.”
Op 17 Februarie 2022 verskyn ’n artikel in Gateway News hieroor. In die Radiokanselonderhoud word ook na hierdie artikel verwys:
- Group announces plans for new synod, ‘radical reformation’ of DRC ‘back to Word of God’ (17 Feb 2022)
Hier volg eers ’n paar aanhalings van Anton Knoetze en daarna volg die volledige onderhoud met Nelus Niemandt.
My kommentaar is in rooi-bruin blokhakies.
Anton Knoetze
02:11 The word “Kairos” is a Greek word and it stands for a specific time, a crisis time and we believe that the Dutch Reformed Church (DRC) is facing a time like this.
04:33 We will not separate from the church. You cannot just separate from the church, or break the church. You need to be salt and light. In other words, speak inside the church. You can’t speak from the outside. You need to be there so that your voice can be heard.
05:00 Our issue is with the general synod of the DRC.
05:40 What we are saying is: there are other issues as well, and the main issue is this. There is a departure from Scripture. … The moment that you abandon the guidance from Scripture on central issues, actually what you are doing is, you are part of a false church. What we will do with the family of churches is we will invite everybody that belongs to the DRC and the 91 congregations will come with representatives and the intention is to create a family grouping of churches. … We will do that towards the end of the month of June.
07:20 A statement was made by the dean of the faculty of theology in Pretoria that they made a decision not to have reformed theology anymore. They made a decision for African theology and the theology of liberation. [Kommentaar: Kyk UP stel hulle kurrikulum transformasie bekend.]
08:00 It is departing of theological ways. We are looking at the alternatives and we all understand the difficult problems of a university. You rely on state subsidies, it is very expensive … We are looking af four different alternatives: … Potchefstroom (North West) … Veritas … distance education … Mukhanyo … overseas alternatives… [Kommentaar: In die persverklaring op 9 Februarie is genoem dat die AP Akademie ook oorweeg sal word. Interessant dat hulle hier uitgelaat word.]
13:06 We still want to continue with discussing this topic (with the leadership of the DRC). We are not in favour of just trying to break structures down. But we still believe that we are salt and light. So we follow the long road.
13:52 We honestly believe that the well-being of the country depends on a church that faithfully adheres to God’s Word.
14:20 (On Nelus Niemandt’s remark: “… suspects KN’s plan to bring like-minded people together will lead to church splitting.”) No, that is definitely not true. We will break our ties with the general synod but the other structures, like regional synods, circuits, church councils, congregations, that will still be in tact. We honestly believe that we are not on a way of church splitting, but we believe that some of the decisions made by the general synod needs to be revoked and unless they do so we have no other option than to start something within the existing structures.
15:22 (What would your message be to the church congregant?) Definitely, do not leave your church. Do not separate from the church. The church is extremely important for any Christian. … We are in a difficult situation, but we don’t want people to leave their church. We believe that you are salt, you are light and you need small quantities of that, but be faithful and we really know that God still keeps his church in place.
[Kommentaar: ’n Mens het volledig begrip daarvoor dat die Kairos Netwerk sensitief is oor kerkskeuring, veral as hulle die oorsaak daarvan gaan wees. Maar om te ontken dat dit moontlik kan gebeur of dat dit selfs waarskynlik is, is nie reg nie. Onthou wat Nelus gesê het: “… suspects KN’s plan to bring like-minded people together will lead to church splitting.” Hy het nie gesê dat KN kerkskeuring beplan nie. Met in ag genome wat egter die afgelope 20 jaar in die NG Kerk gebeur het, sou ’n meer gepaste antwoord wees: “We don’t know exactly what the future holds, but I am afraid that splitting might be inevitable.”
Ek weet eintlik nie hoe die KN kerkskeuring gaan vermy nie. Die KN het in wese slegs twee opsies:
- Draai die NGK om, of
- Stap weg / paaie skei / verdeel / skeur (jy kan dit noem wat jy wil)
Die enigste manier om die NGK om te draai is om dit by die Algemene Sinode (AS) te doen, om die dwaalbesluite daar om te draai. Die KN het egter baie duidelik gesê dat hulle strategie is om bande met die AS te breek, dus word daar nie in die eerste plek beplan om die kerk om te draai nie. Die manier hoe hulle bande met die AS wil breek is deur artikel 37.
Kom ons kyk na die volgende scenario wat die KN blykbaar beplan: Veronderstel Sinode Vrystaat keur artikel 37 goed en breek dus weg van die AS. Behoudende gemeentes van ander streeksinodes sluit nou by hulle aan. Liberale gemeentes binne die Vrystaat skuif uit na ander streeksinodes, soos die Wes-Kaap. Nou is Vrystaat ’n behoudende streeksinode wat los is van die AS. Met ander woorde, hulle woon nie meer die AS by nie. Hulle stem by die AS is dus stil en die kanse dat die AS/NGK sal omdraai is nog minder.
In wese het daar nou reeds kerkskeuring plaasgevind. Die behoudendes in Sinode Vrystaat is nou nie meer sout en lig binne die NGK nie. Om die mense in liberale streeksinodes te bereik gaan jy as’t ware van buite sendingwerk moet doen. Terloops, hierdie opdrag sal nooit ophou nie.
Verder sal dit nie help as die KN daar stop nie. Dit sal ’n halfgebakte situasie wees. Hulle sal hulleself op die ou einde as ’n nuwe denominasie moet verklaar. Die rede hoekom daar verskillende kerkdenominasies bestaan is om ’n teologiese onderskeid te tref tussen groepe. Daar kan nie wyd uiteenlopende teologiese sieninge binne een kerkdenominasie wees nie. Anders sou mens kon redeneer dat alle kerke deel van die Wêreldraad van Kerke moes word en dat elke gemeente vry is om sy eie ding te doen binne hierdie oorhoofse struktuur.
Dit is interessant: Die meerderheid van KN se lede is waarskynlik gekant teen kerkeenheid met die VGK juis omdat daar gevoel word dat daar teologiese probleme is met die Belydenis van Belhar. Hoe kan jy dan binne ’n denominasie bly (die NGK) wat nie net teologies van jou verskíl nie, maar wat blatant dwaalleer aanhang? Dit maak nie sin nie.]
Nelus Niemandt
Wynand (16:35): At a central task group meeting last week the group, Kairos Network decided to forge ahead with a plan to create, what they call a family grouping. What would your response be to this?
Nelus (16:49): Well, I think many people know that there is considerable turmoil in the Dutch Reformed Church (DRC). From a personal point of view I need to say that I know this playbook. About 40 years ago the APK broke away from the DRC and eventually formed an all white church because they were not in support of the moves in the DRC to greet apartheid. This grouping follows the same pattern. It is literally, if you think for a moment, similar to what is happening in the Ukraine: Russia has been mobilising for months, there are lots of strategies being put in place but the end goal in that particular story is to invade another country. In a certain sense this is the same pattern you can see. The strategy is to engineer an eventual schism and I am deeply concerned about that.
Wynand (17:51): According to Gateway News Kairos Network resolve to come up with recommendations also on alternative theological training and mentoring programs. What would your comments be regards to that?
Nelus (18:07): Well, you evaluate a tree by looking at its fruits. If you want to talk about theological training in the DRC: the training is done by four training partners and I think, just thinking back about the last 20 years, that the training partners delivered excellent and well prepared young pastors. Church members listen to them every Sunday and I am convinced that they are deeply satisfied with the message they hear from these young theologians. It is far, far away from liberal theological message, as the Network claims. Interesting enough, our theological training is in partnership with ecumenical partners, such as the Hervormde Kerk, the Anglican, Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian and Uniting Reformed Church and I do not see that they share the same concerns, concerns that compel them to consider other options. So I am convinced that the Kairos Network constructed a red herring about the DRC theological training. [Kommentaar: “Red herring = a piece of information which is or is intended to be misleading or distracting.” Dit is nogal ’n aantyging om te maak! ’n Mens is verstom dat Nelus dit nog enigsins ontken dat daar liberale teologie by die fakulteite beoefen word, ten spyte van etlike getuienisse van studente en wat teologiese fakuteite self sê.] They made the names public of the institutions where they now think they should train pastors. One of them is connected to a church who preferably do not allow people of colour. The other is connected to a church which do not train and allow female pastors. This seems to be a move towards a long gone past. I would rather bet my future on theological institutions that prepare people for real life circumstances in our country and I think our current training is doing very well with this.
Wynand (19:49): According to Gateway News, dr Anton Knoetze, chairperson of the Kairos Network, is also on record saying the general synod and certain lecturers has sold out, and let me quote them verbatim “to an extreme human rights centred culture which resulted in man and not God being the central focus of the DRC”. What would your comments be to that?
Nelus (20:19): Well, the Bible teaches us to love God with all you have got and your fellow man as much as you love yourself. There is no polarity in this. And now people wants to put the DRC in a box: they love their neighbours too much. That is just the kind of polarity that does not exist. [Kommentaar: Dit is nie verbasend dat Nelus dit sê nie, want hy glo ook nie in die duiwel nie (kyk Nelus Niemandt oor die bose en seks voor die huwelik), waarskynlik ook nie in die polariteit van hemel en hel nie en waarskynlik ook nie in die polariteit van verskillende gelowe nie (volgens Louis Scheepers het Nelus gesê dat Christene en Moslems dieselfde God aanbid ).] You can look at all the decisions of the DRC and their synods. God is central in our theology and central in our church discussions. That is the core of the church. [Kommentaar: Gaan kyk gerus en besluit vir jouself: NG Kerk algemene sinodes. Kyk ook Verdediging van Die Strand se sewe aantygings.] But the very God we love so much commands us to act in a just way towards our fellow human beings. I think Dr Knoetze wants to play into far right sentiments of people who are afraid of a human rights culture in our country. I think Christian life can flourish in a human rights culture and we do not need to put God and humans in polarity to each other. You can love God with everything you have got and act in a just way towards your fellow human being and still be a flourishing Christian.
Wynand (21:28): Prof Niemand, I believe between 91 and 120 congregations throughout South Africa are officially grieving over the decisions of the general synod. What would your message be to these congregations?
Nelus (21:51): Well, I think one needs to make a very important point, and that is that the DRC is united in faith but diverse enough and bound together by our core confessions. So we must be and are able to accommodate the differences regarding ethical issues and other borderline issues of faith. People of faith who all love Christ and who all serve God differ on many many issues. You can actually list about a hundred to a hundred and forty of those issues. We must be very careful to allow a schism to happen because the Bible is very clear that we need to work with all we have got to promote unity in the church. If we allow a schism to happen we will see many more tears and grieving. Families, friends, neighbours will break away and we have learnt from previous and other schisms that this will always bring unhappiness, discomfort … between friends and families. We cannot allow this to happen. We need to follow the Biblical path which is to emphasize unity and that is I think exactly why unity is so important from the Biblical perspective.
[Kommentaar: Nee Nelus! Ware liefde vir God is gehoorsaamheid aan Hom. Dit is nie om in vrede met mekaar te leef nie. Ek moet Nelus herinner aan Matteus 10:34-39 waar Jesus self aan die woord is:
(34)“Moenie dink dat Ek gekom het om vrede op die aarde te bring nie. Ek het nie gekom om vrede te bring nie maar die swaard. (35)Ek het gekom om tweedrag te bring “ ‘tussen ’n man en sy vader en tussen ’n dogter en haar moeder, tussen ’n skoondogter en haar skoonmoeder; (36)ja, ’n man se huismense sal sy vyande wees.’ (37)“Hy wat sy vader of moeder liewer het as vir My, is nie werd om aan My te behoort nie; hy wat sy seun of dogter liewer het as vir My, is nie werd om aan My te behoort nie. (38)Hy wat nie sy kruis opneem en My volg nie, is nie werd om aan My te behoort nie. (39)“Hy wat sy lewe wil behou, sal dit verloor; en hy wat sy lewe ter wille van My verloor, sal dit vind.”
Paulus self het ook paaie met Barnabas geskei op grond van ’n meningsverskil oor Markus wat hulle in Pamfilië verlaat het (Handelinge 15:36-41). Dit is duidelik dat die Bybel NIE eenheid ten alle koste verkondig nie.]
Wynand (23:12): You are also on record saying you suspect the Kairos Network’s plan to bring like-minded people together will lead the church to splitting up. Do you still believe there will be a split?
Nelus (23:34): Well, as I have said, I am very deeply concerned about the kind of mobilisation that is now happening and I do hope, with all my heart, that we can fend off a schism and a split. It will will weaken the gospel message. It will weaken the work of the church as our christian witness and some of the most important aspects of church life are at stake. I just want to take one example: the Covid pandemic showed us the importance of faith communities and their very important role to assist people in disaster. If we split, we will will be weaker and fulnerable and children will pay the price. So, yes, I am deeply concerned and that is why I really try to work hard to prevent a split.
[Kommentaar: Nelus probeer selfs om die dood van kinders voor die deur van die KN te gooi, sou daar ’n skeuring plaasvind. As ’n mens dan van kinders moet praat, moet ’n mens ook Markus 9:42 noem:
“Elkeen wat een van hierdie kleintjies wat in My glo, van My afvallig laat word, vir hom is dit baie beter as ’n groot meulsteen aan sy nek vasgemaak en hy in die see gegooi word.
‘n Mens wonder hoeveel kinders/studente/volwassenes afvallig geraak het weens die liberale drek wat in die NGK se teologiese fakulteite geleer word.]
Wynand (24:27): Prof Niemandt, your final thoughts. Your message to the body of Christ in South Africa. What do you say is the way forward? Is there a solution to the problem?
Nelus (24:37): Well, we need to work hard and do everything to stay united to one and the way of the gospel is to hold onto each other, to hold onto our four … you know … ehh.. confessions of faith and to acknowledge that differences exist. [Kommentaar: Skielik het die NG Kerk nou vier belydenisskrifte. ’n Mens is egter nie verbaas nie. Toe die Belydenis van Belhar nie in 2015 as ’n amptelike geloofsbelydenis van die NG Kerk goedgekeur kon word nie (kyk Belhar), het die NG leierskap begin om dit op ander maniere probeer insmokkel. Reeds voor 2015 vertel teologiese studente dat hulle gemanipuleer is om die Belhar belydenis te onderteken tydens legitimasie. Op 24 November 2021 word teologiese studente van die NG Kerk en VGK in Stellenbosch saam gelegitimeer wat die Belydenis van Belhar insluit. Kyk NG Kerk legitimasiediens gebruik om kerkeenheid te bevorder.] It is not strange. From the very earliest years there have been conflict and differences amongst Christian communities, but we have got a way to handle those specific conflicts and we need to open up discussion. Just take for example the whole discussion with theological faculties and places where training happen. There were many invitations extended to have frank discussions about the issues being put on the table and I think we need to follow that way.
[Kommentaar: Dit is vir Nelus baie maklik om ewe heilig en met selfvertroue te sê dat die regte manier om verskille op te los is om te praat. Hy weet dat dit alreeds gedoen is en dat dit nie ’n verskil gemaak het nie (kyk byvoorbeeld Lys van pleitskrifte aan die NG Kerk leierskap en Skokkende geskiedenis van die NG Kerk sedert 2000). Hy weet hy sit met die hef in die hand.
Daar is ’n woord wat die stand van sake in die NG Kerk baie goed verwoord: VASGELOOPTHEID! Geen gesprek sal help om mekaar hoegenaamd te vind nie. Die vraag is: wat staan Kairos Netwerk te doen: Gaan hulle die NGK probeer omdraai of gaan hulle wegstap? Want hierdie huis het heeltemal te ruim geword vir behoudende Christene.]